In this episode, Wayne Cafran, a former partner at KPMG, shares his journey to becoming a certified executive coach. Wayne talks about the importance of certification through the International Coaching Federation (ICF) and the distinct roles of an executive coach. HE emphasizes the significance of self-awareness, active listening, and challenging clients to find their own solutions. The conversation highlights coaching’s role in personal and professional transformation, its flexible nature, and its impact on business leadership and employee connection in the era of rapid technological growth.
Video Transcription
Chapter Two: Creating New Beginnings
From KPMG Partner to Executive Coach, Part 1
With Wayne Cafran, Eleven Canterbury Consultant, former Partner at KPMG, and Dan Martin, Eleven Canterbury Relationship and Program Manager
Introduction
Dan Martin: It’s a pleasure to be speaking with Wayne Cafran. Today, we’re talking today about transitioning from full-time work to a variety of activities. Wayne has an interesting background, having retired as a partner of KPMG. He’s been on public boards, private boards, and his own executive coaching business.
So, Wayne, what is coaching? I seem to hear that everybody and their brother thinks they can coach. What is it, and what kind of training do you need? What makes you successful?
Wayne Cafran: Well, it’s a pleasure to be here, Dan, and thank you for the time and the opportunity.
So, first of all, let me just say I had a great career at KPMG, and today, my life is more balanced than it has ever been, with work, family, friends, and things that I want to do, coaching being one of them. And you’re right, Dan. There are a lot of misconceptions about coaching. In fact, when I was thinking about going into coaching, I asked that same question – what is it? What I tend to say about coaching is, first of all, you need to be a certified coach. A lot of coaches call themselves coaches, but they’re not certified. There is an organization called the International Coaching Federation. It’s a standardization and credentialing organization that certifies companies that provide training. So, if one wants to be a coach, make sure to get ICF certified. But what I do with coaching is meet the client where they are today and find out what they want to accomplish and what’s holding them back from accomplishing what they want to be doing.
So, it’s really in the present. It’s the who, it’s the what. Coaches really challenge, they inspire, and again, they meet the client where they are. And they don’t give out answers. It’s not therapy. You’re not looking backward. It’s not mentoring, because in coaching, the answers always lie with the client. As a coach, your job is to get it out of them so it can be sustainable. And that’s the best I can summarize what coaching is and the certification requirements.
Dan Martin: That’s really interesting. It seems to me it may be a bit of a challenge. It’s certainly different to go from consulting, where you are telling people how to do it, to coaching, where you’re really trying to draw it out from them.
Wayne Cafran: Yes, that’s great. So, when I was a consultant for thirty-plus years, we were hired for the toughest projects, and people looked for our experience and recommendations and things like that. Coaching is a lot different because the biggest assets that you have as a coach are these two things: your ears, you’ve got to be an active listener, right?
Wayne Cafran: So, it’s listening more, staying curious more, asking more questions. Also, the other thing that’s really important, because I think this is different than consulting, is that you need to know your own biases going in as a coach. And you need to know what your limiting beliefs are because you can’t really coach someone if you have biases, judgments, assumptions, and things like that, and you need to know what they are.
In fact, and I’ll be very honest with you, when I was going through the certification process, the first thing I received was a 50-page document filled with questions about my life as a child, such as my favorite movies, why they were my favorites, and questions like that. And I thought, ‘Why are they asking me these questions? I’m a coach.’ It’s because you need to have a sense of who you are and what you’re all about before you can coach someone else. Very different than consulting.
Dan Martin: That’s very interesting. One of the key things that seems important is really learning about yourself, which is a major part of making a transition from working full-time to this kind of portfolio of activities that you have.
Wayne Cafran: I love coaching. Coaching has changed my life because I went through it myself, and it gave me a new perspective on who I am. I learned a lot about myself. It was hard. I’ll tell you, coaching was probably the most difficult education I went through in certification, but I came out of it a better person.
What I love about coaching is, yes, it’s flexible. As someone who’s retired, it’s a flexible type of position where I can scale up or scale down. But the biggest thing for me is it’s like Christmas; it’s better to give than to receive. When I speak with someone, and we get that aha moment about what’s been holding them back – we talked about assumptions and beliefs – and they come up with it and say, ah, yes, this is what I need, this is what’s holding me back. That’s the aha moment. I mean, you can’t get any better than that as a human being or as a coach when you’re working with someone.
Dan Martin: It reminds me, certainly not at the level that you’re at, but it reminds me of when I was working at Georgia Tech as a student, helping people correct their programs, and I discovered the best way to do it was to ask questions, you know, what is this supposed to do? And most of the time, if you ask the questions, eventually, they would say, ah, there it is. Thanks for finding it. And I had no clue what the problem was. I think getting people to think about it
Is there something you wish you had known before you started?
Wayne Cafran: You know, I went through this journey; I’m going to take it as it comes. What I realized, though, is that if you really want to make a lot of money, this probably isn’t the profession. Right? If you’re in it for the money and need to make a substantial amount, this probably isn’t the profession for you. There are many folks who make a lot of money, but it’s because they are selling, they’re doing webcasts, podcasts, and things like that.
I did all my selling in my former career. I don’t want to do that now. So, a lot of my work is through referrals, and some great organizations I work with that go out and get the clients, and I do the coaching, which I love.
Dan Martin: It sounds like you found something that really gives you a chance to make an impact, to do something you love, and to take control of your time, and you can do it when and where you want. Sounds like a wonderful experience.
Wayne Cafran: Yes, it really is. And to be a little more tangible, it’s really about changing someone’s mindset. I’ll give you a quick example – we call it gremlins. This is what’s holding someone back. The ‘I’m not good enough, I’m not smart enough,’ or whatever you fill in the blank. We help change the mindset by talking about the things they have already accomplished. The good things they’ve done and had, and what the things were that I did to make sure that there was a good outcome, it was a good process. So, we’re changing the mindset of people who are just getting stuck in terms of moving to the next direction. And I work with leaders on the business side of it.
The other thing I love about it is that it keeps me relevant in business. When we talk about business, we know about the growth of technology, but it always comes down to the connection with the employees, with your colleagues, and building connections and trust amongst teams. Even in this era of AI technology, growth still comes down to connections, and coaches have a really good impact on leaders who are trying to improve all that stuff.
Dan Martin: Well, thank you very much. I’ve learned a lot. I’ve enjoyed speaking with you, as always, Wayne, and look forward to future discussions.
Wayne Cafran: Thanks, Dan.
